Hasan Piker Will Never Run for Office

The Joe Rogan of nan Left; nan poster kid for antisemitism; Woke Bae. Hasan Piker is galore things to galore people. They don’t each consciousness nan aforesaid measurement astir Piker aliases his politics, but astir presumably work together connected 1 thing: He is simply a relentless quality being.

Most days a week, you tin find nan 34-year-old Twitch streamer talking to his audience, often for six to 9 hours astatine a stretch. Most of that time, he’s discussing and reacting to nan news. And during President Trump’s 2nd term, there’s plentifulness of that to spell around.

Of course, Piker isn’t speaking into nan void. He has astir 3 cardinal followers connected Twitch and has hosted conversations pinch Senator Bernie Sanders and US typical Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. He claims his predetermination nighttime watercourse successful 2024 reached a staggering 7.5 cardinal viewers. On this section of Big Interview, I talked to Piker astir his looks, his emotion of Italian sandwiches, and immoderate early governmental aspirations he mightiness (or mightiness not) want to tease.

This question and reply has been edited for magnitude and clarity.

KATIE DRUMMOND: Hello, Hasan.

HASAN PIKER: Hi. It's awesome to beryllium here.

I heard you were conscionable astatine nan gym. How was that?

Yeah, I was astatine nan park. Some days I return my canine and I play a small spot of hoops and get to bent retired pinch immoderate people. See what nan normies are talking about.

What were they talking astir today?

We talk a batch astir Israel. I consciousness for illustration a batch of normies, astatine slightest that I bent retired with, they oftentimes will beryllium talking astir overseas policy, which is astonishing and unexpected for sure.

But different than that, not much. The different time it was astir thing silly. Trump was connected nan tile of nan White House, and that was for illustration a large woody for immoderate people. I conscionable don't really understand why.

I deliberation it was a large woody connected nan net because it was a very funny picture.

It was a funny picture.

So look, we ever commencement these conversations pinch immoderate very accelerated questions to lukewarm up. Are you ready?

I'm ready.

What was your first online surface name?

Oh my God. Uh, it was Hasso Fadir. It was for illustration “Hasan father,” but successful a Turkish measurement of saying “father” successful English.

It's not nan Turkish connection for “father,” because that's baba, but it was spelled retired successful nan measurement that a Turkish personification would opportunity “father.”

Mine was Miss Pickle. What’s nan first portion of tech you usage aft you aftermath up?

My phone.

Last portion of tech you look astatine earlier you spell to bed.

Still my phone.

Last matter connection you sent.

Let's see. It was to my friend Emma Vigeland. She's cohost of The Majority Report who said, “You're gonna beryllium successful Chicago?? Let's collaborate. I alert retired tonight.” I said, “Same.”

Are you gonna collaborate?

Yeah.

All right. What's your favourite sandwich?

That's a reliable 1 because I emotion each of them. I would opportunity a New Jersey sub from this institution called Sorrento’s astir Freehold. A Number 14, which is simply a combination, I believe, of for illustration Number 7 and Number 12. [Eds. note: Sorrento’s menu says nan Number 14 is simply a combo of a Number 5 and a Number 12 called nan Pig Special.] So an Italian sub from a existent New Jersey institution, and if not that, past a Wawa Club sandwich.

I really admit really circumstantial that was. Thank you. First video crippled you ever bought?

I pirated a batch because I was successful Turkey increasing up, truthful it was virtually intolerable for america to get for illustration a batch of video games. As acold arsenic purchase, it could beryllium Metal Gear Solid 2 for nan PlayStation 2, aliases I conjecture a Pokémon game.

So let’s rewind 34 years. You were calved successful New Jersey. You spent nan mostly of your puerility successful Turkey.

Yeah.

You've talked earlier astir that upbringing. You've characterized it arsenic a very privileged one. How did that experience, now that you're capable to look backmost and reflect, impact your worldview? How does that move you into nan personification that you are today?

There’s monolithic income inequality successful Turkey that almost resembles America now, but that’s still acold worse successful Turkey. For that reason, if you’re supra board, if you’re comparatively affluent, you travel crossed arsenic very able successful comparison to nan mean person.

I’ve ne'er sheltered group from that truth, but I did turn up reasonably affluent. It was very affirmative successful nan consciousness that I didn’t person to interest astir making ends meet aliases having to return connected a occupation aliases thing for illustration that. My parents’ main interest was to make judge that I wasn't spoiled, truthful I didn't get everything I wanted.

Outside of that, I would opportunity that arsenic a young boy I was sent to nationalist schoolhouse successful Turkey. I deliberation it was a bully point that my parents did that because it made maine understand that location were very different income brackets pinch group surviving successful very different conditions.

You moved to nan United States for college, right? What was astonishing to you astir that transition?

When I came to college, this is virtually what I wanted. Other group were like, “I want to beryllium an astronaut,” “I want to beryllium a teacher,” “I want to beryllium a title car driver.” I was like, “I want to spell to assemblage successful America.”

So I loved it. I was truthful stoked to beryllium here, and I had each of these beliefs. You know, this is simply a onshore of freedom, onshore of prosperity, right?

Right.

This is wherever I’m gonna make a sanction for myself, make a profession for myself.

Slowly but surely, experiences increasing up aliases going to assemblage and past onwards surviving successful America, slow chipped distant astatine that dream. Piece by piece.

Yeah.

It’s absorbing because successful comparison to different fresh-off-the-boat migrant stories, I did it. I americium surviving nan American dream, but I conscionable realized that it’s not thing that is readily accessible for all.

In my occupation moving WIRED—and particularly moving WIRED since Trump was reelected—I interest astir my family’s information and well-being. Obviously I interest astir my staff. Do you interest astir your family fixed nan high-profile quality of your occupation and really outspoken you are?

Oh, yeah. All nan time. But it's not new.

Yeah, sure.

It’s not caller for me. For 2 reasons. One, because if you’ve been a visible fig connected nan near and you’ve been a commentator connected nan near online, nary matter what size you are, you’ve knowledgeable doxing and decease threats. This is thing that is conscionable successful nan backdrop astatine this constituent successful my career. I’ve been taking it connected nan chin for worldly for illustration this since 2014.

The different logic why I opportunity I’m utilized to it is because I’m Turkish, and nan Turkish authorities is very restrictive pinch what you tin and can’t say. In nan past, I’ve been straight called up and threatened by nan Turkish authorities for an article I wrote for nan Huffington Post astir nan coup.

Oh.

[They] demanded that I constitute different 1 that was successful favour of Turkey. I didn’t do it. But because my full family still lives successful Turkey, that is still very overmuch a threat.

I person capable privilege and capable money to beryllium capable to take sides my family and myself against specified things. There are truthful galore group who are defenseless, who get swept distant successful nan process. So I effort to speak for them to nan champion of my ability.

What does your family deliberation astir what you do?

They for illustration it. They weren’t large fans of it astatine first. They didn’t afloat understand what it was. By nan clip I started taking attraction of them financially, they were conscionable like, “Alright, it’s fine.”

I’m nan achromatic sheep of my family. I’m nan only 1 pinch an undergraduate grade only. My dada and my mom some person PhDs. My relative has a master’s successful engineering. So they’re each very credentialed. My dada utilized to ever show me, “When are you going to spell backmost to school? When are you going to get a PhD? When are you going to get a existent job?” Those telephone calls stopped astatine a definite point, and I would opportunity that's aft I started financially taking attraction of nan full family.

Back successful May, you were detained coming backmost into nan United States. You past shared that your Global Entry credential was revoked by nan Department of Homeland Security. You’ve been targeted before, but that felt categorically caller and different.

Oh, for sure.

Do you consciousness safe surviving and moving successful nan United States correct now?

I mean, yes and no. I consciousness safer than I would successful galore different parts of nan world still, right?

Right.

But having said that, I surely don't consciousness arsenic safe arsenic I did 10 years agone aliases 5 years ago. Because there's a difference, I think, pinch right-wing, neo-Nazi circuits coming aft you versus nan existent national authorities actively putting a target connected your back. I deliberation that is decidedly a small spot much terrifying because erstwhile they do it, it's legal, right?

Yeah.

As personification who has seen what that looks for illustration successful Turkey, this is decidedly a scary predicament. My family surely thinks so, and they don't want maine to proceed doing it successful America, but I'm excessively stubborn to leave.

I'm gonna pivot a small bit. What drew you to Twitch successful nan first place? You were connected YouTube, right?

I was connected YouTube for the Young Turks.

Yes, right.

I was connected Facebook chiefly for nan Young Turks arsenic well. But I wanted to make my ain thing, I wanted to make my ain organization and person a spot that I could spell and person it arsenic my ain thing. I play video games already, truthful I was like, you cognize what? I'm playing a batch of Fortnite—might arsenic good maximize this time. I was playing pinch a bunch of different contented creators, a bunch of different journalists and podcasters.

Got it.

So I was already playing Fortnite pinch those guys and shooting nan shit, talking politics. Anyway, I mightiness arsenic good strap a camera to my PlayStation 4 and conscionable spell unrecorded connected Twitch. That's precisely what I did for for illustration nan first mates of months. Then I upgraded it.

I don't watch you for six to 9 hours a time because I person a job, but I've seen capable to cognize that this is an endurance sport. How overmuch of this is planned up of clip and really overmuch of this is conscionable freewheeling and seeing wherever those 9 hours return you?

It's a spot of both. I person a skeleton successful mind for what I'm going to talk astir each azygous day. There's top-level stories that I'm decidedly willing successful getting to, and for that logic I'll person an thought of what I'm decidedly going to cover.

Right.

But passim nan time arsenic events unfold, of course, I don't person each my talking points readily assigned up of time, and there's decidedly a overmuch much unfastened connection format that I person successful my chat.

What do you read, perceive to, and watch? What’s your news fare successful 2025?

Everything. From TikTok to, unfortunately, Twitter, moreover though Twitter is bad and insanely unreliable for that purpose. Twitter utilized to beryllium my superior measurement to conscionable download nan news, and it's gone. It doesn't usability successful that measurement anymore.

As acold arsenic mainstream publications go, it’s NPR, The New York Times, CNN, NBC, everything.

How overmuch do you interest astir context? You're streaming for hours and hours a day, days connected end. You are talking about, often, very contentious subjects, right? Your words tin beryllium taken retired of discourse very easily.

And they are.

How overmuch do you effort to power aliases redirect that communicative versus conscionable logging connected nan adjacent time and doing your point and conscionable letting it run?

I utilized to effort and return power complete that communicative rather a bit.

Did it work?

I realized that that was astir apt a mistake. Because a batch of group that do that are doing that maliciously, for illustration they are not genuinely willing successful offering constructive disapproval aliases genuinely willing successful addressing a misunderstanding. In astir circumstances they're conscionable doing that specifically truthful they tin professionally misunderstand you and coming your position arsenic nan nonstop other successful galore instances.

There's an full cottage manufacture dedicated to doing that. I deliberation I offered it a batch of legitimacy by responding and being like, “Hey guys, no, you sewage this wrong. This is what I really meant.”

In that process I realized that a batch of those aforesaid group would conscionable move astir and make much contented disconnected that response, wherever they would beryllium like, “Oh, he’s having a difficult clip coping,” aliases they wouldn't judge me.

Right.

I encompassed this wide scope of ideology that they despise, and became for illustration a figurehead that they could onslaught to fundamentally position themselves arsenic against nan near without openly saying that they’re against nan left.

So you person your detractors, but you besides person a batch of fans. Why do you deliberation group for illustration you?

I pass nan anger that they consciousness successful their hearts astir nan measurement that nan strategy is designed.

Some group say, it’s because [I’m] attractive. “It’s your looks” aliases whatever. I'm like, “Thank you for saying that. That's very bully of you.” But I deliberation it's mostly because I effort to capable nan domiciled different commentators filled for maine erstwhile I was increasing up arsenic a young boy, willing successful politics, willing successful American authorities successful particular, erstwhile I saw group for illustration Jon Stewart aliases for illustration governmental satirists that I publication successful Turkey who helped maine understand nan world a small spot better.

Got it.

So, successful a batch of ways, I effort to beryllium an antidote to nan unimaginable faucet of reactionary contented that you spot online to nan champion of my ability, which, for illustration I said, draws a batch of enmity from these very successful corners of nan internet.

I wanna inquire you astir nan Democrats. I want to inquire you astir nan thought that has been floating astir since Trump won, that they person to find their Joe Rogan. I saw an question and reply you did precocious wherever I deliberation you said thing like, nan Democrats don’t request their ain Joe Rogan, they request amended policies.

Yeah, that's nan point that I’ve consistently stated complete and complete again, which seemingly nary 1 hears for immoderate reason. It’s conscionable like, you can't podcast your measurement retired of this problem.

Talk to america a small spot much astir nan problem arsenic you spot it.

The Democrats don’t conscionable person a trading problem. The Democrats are conscionable a bad governmental party. When I opportunity that, I don't mean evil successful nan aforesaid measurement that nan Republicans are an evil governmental party. Right? Republicans person bad policy, but bully politics.

Mm-hmm.

What I mean by that is they are very bully astatine utilizing nan governmental machine, mounting up wedge issues, really hammering successful those wedge issues successful an effort to create immoderate benignant of mobilization aliases momentum astir a legislative agenda.

That is horrifying. That’s nan bad policy. Democrats, connected nan different hand, are expected to person bully argumentation and bad politics, but they don’t moreover person bully policy. They person bad argumentation and bad politics, truthful erstwhile I opportunity they’re bad astatine their jobs, they're bad astatine being nan counterbalance to increasing fascism successful this country. They’re bad astatine being nan guidance party.

How so?

They’re not defined by a mates cardinal signature policies that everyone could champion. Medicare for each is simply a awesome illustration of this. Free assemblage is different one.

Obviously, focusing connected nan costs of surviving situation that Americans are facing correct now is what Trump did, astatine slightest erstwhile he was campaigning.

Right.

Clearly, he is not invested successful fixing that astatine all, but astatine slightest he campaigned connected that.

Trump was moreover capable to run arsenic somewhat of an anti-war fig arsenic opposed to Kamala Harris, which is truthful crazy to me.

Crazy because that’s not true. That was ne'er going to beryllium true. But nan only logic group were foolish capable to judge him is because nan Democrats were actively messaging that they were going to proceed decease and destruction. Kamala said she was going to beryllium responsible for the astir lethal military successful American history astatine nan DNC. That's not a point that immoderate Democrat should ever say.

Let maine inquire you this. You tin threat your fingers and get nan Democrats retired of nan messiness that they've created for themselves …

OK.

… get nan GOP outta nan White House successful 2028. What has to happen? What is nan revolutionary alteration that transforms this very hopeless move that I deliberation a batch of group are emotion correct now?

Everyone behaves for illustration [New York City mayoral candidate] Zohran Mamdani, for illustration everyone get much extremist now. I’m not moreover unsocial connected this. White, wide vino moms are demanding that Hakeem Jeffries put his assemblage connected nan statement to extremity these deportations, to extremity these wide firings taking spot astatine national regulatory agencies.

We request to commencement putting labour first. We request to commencement putting nan moving people first and foremost.

If nan Democrats don’t do that, cynical Republicans will return advantage of nan void that nan Democrats time off successful nan media to coming themselves arsenic nan existent populists, because they do that each nan time. Trump did that.

Mm.

Trump said, I’m not cutting Medicaid, I’m not cutting Medicare. I’m not rubbing immoderate of that. Not rubbing Social Security. Then $800 cardinal successful cuts to Medicaid coming aft this caller taxation cuts for nan able package, nan [“One Big Beautiful Bill”] that he passed. The very truth that he ran connected not doing that point that he’s now doing still intends that they admit that near populist messaging is very valuable.

I’ll springiness you different example: Israel. Eight percent of Democrat voters opportunity they for illustration what Israel is doing. Yet, if you were to look astatine nan Democratic party’s politicians, if you were to look astatine nan organs of media, you would presume that everyone is connected committee pinch what Israel is doing. Or possibly a small spot captious astir it. Every now and past a small spot of condemnation present and there. That’s not reflective of nan anger that group person successful their hearts for this barbaric run of decease and destruction.

So someone’s gonna return advantage of that. Who’s taking advantage of that void successful discourse? Tucker Carlson. Who’s taking advantage of that void successful leadership? Marjorie Taylor Greene. People who person their receptor to nan crushed who understand that this rumor will get them tremendous support.

What does nan US successful 2025 nether Trump look for illustration to you? What words would you usage and what do you deliberation that Americans don’t understand adequately, aliases possibly don’t understand yet astir surviving successful a state wherever populist is simply a mobility people and not a judge point anymore?

I’ve ne'er thought that we’ve had a existent antiauthoritarian process anyway, because of nan issues that I brought up astir wellness attraction and whatnot. These are things that group want and yet they ne'er look to get them, right? That's a portion of nan logic why I deliberation nan wide antiauthoritarian process that we person present successful America and successful galore different Western countries is simply a unit valve to make group consciousness for illustration they participate successful this process, to make group consciousness for illustration their sound is heard to a definite grade truthful they don’t revolt.

Because countries that person much quote-unquote authoritarian intends of governance are perpetually susceptible to rebellion. Whereas I deliberation wide populist has that unit valve truthful that group conscionable go, “Well, I voted, I did my thing.” And we still person nan antiauthoritarian process here. Like our voices are still heard.

Yes.

Now I consciousness for illustration that’s falling apart. But I deliberation nan apt comparison of 2025 America is nan dissolution of nan USSR, because it was decease by a 1000 cuts. But I deliberation nan USSR yet engaged successful self-destruction, wherever galore Western-affiliated and connected officials—there were high-ranking authorities officials fundamentally picking isolated nan star of nan authorities for profit arsenic they recognized that liberalization was coming—took advantage of this. As a intends to summation their wealthiness and power. The Russian Federation is tally by those guys, nan oligarchs.

That's benignant of what we're doing present arsenic well. It is simply a self-inflicted coiled calved retired of conscionable axenic greed pinch nary counterbalance whatsoever. No replacement imagination for wherever nine could germinate towards. I deliberation a batch of group person succumbed to nihilism for understandable reasons, because they consciousness for illustration their voices are not heard.

So they effort to support going by engaging successful commodity depletion and watching movies and watching TikTok clips and conscionable trying to make ends meet. And past hopefully consciousness a semblance of humanity successful nan very fewer moments that they person to themselves.

This is not a gotcha question, it’s genuinely thing that I deliberation astir and grapple with. WIRED publishes connected Facebook, we trust connected Google search. We’re intertwined pinch each of these exertion companies, and we screen them connected a regular basis. You people connected Twitch; you don’t ain and power that platform. It’s yet owned by Amazon. You people connected Instagram, which is owned by Meta.

Mm-hmm.

It has not ever been a soft roadworthy for you astatine Twitch. You were banned for a period, I deliberation 24 hours, a mates months ago. What are nan interactions for illustration pinch nan platform, and person you ever thought astir opinionated thing up that would springiness you much independence?

It’s surely thing that I’ve thought about, but unluckily my occupation arsenic a communicator is to beryllium arsenic accessible arsenic possible.

Right.

Outside of nan galore complications of launching an inaugural specified arsenic that one, it would besides beryllium intolerable to do truthful without utilizing AWS. So past you spell backmost to Amazon.

As a governmental commentator that is extracurricular of nan governmental duopoly that exists successful this country, I’m ever reasoning astir nan threat of deplatforming, right?

Yeah.

The reality of nan matter is I conscionable person to play shot pinch these large corporations to a definite grade because I still do make a batch of gross for them. So I deliberation that is nan worth that I bring to nan table. Not only do I make a batch of gross for them, I make a batch of affirmative trading for them. Because if each of nan apical contented creators were conscionable small creatures that were perpetually saying insanely toxic things and insanely hateful things, I deliberation advertisers would astir apt not for illustration that arsenic much.

What do you make of the conversations astir your appearance? I looked astatine your Instagram. Hasan, you are shirtless often. So you look to clasp this portion of your fandom, this portion of nan conversation.

I mean, I’m conscionable who I am, right? I don't do it arsenic a trading method aliases whatever. I grew up very fat, truthful erstwhile I was capable to suffer this weight and execute definite goals that I had group for myself fitness-wise, I wanted to power others to besides beryllium capable to do nan aforesaid and to lead patient lives.

But I’m judge that there’s plentifulness of group who go, “That dude is hot,” and convey you. I’ll return it.

But nan point is pinch The New York Times [story], I don’t deliberation The New York Times is ever going to do that because for illustration my authorities are, particularly erstwhile it comes to overseas policy, reasonably antagonistic …

Mm-hmm.

… to The New York Times. And while location are unthinkable journalists there, immoderate of them are my very bully friends who activity tirelessly to effort to break definite stories and possibly moreover get pushback. I deliberation this is fundamentally a measurement for immoderate group to conscionable effort to get maine much mainstream prominence.

Sure.

So I’ll return it. I was connected Time’s 100 Most Influential database recently. I telephone it coercion security because location are ever a batch of publications, far-right publications, that are actively trying to get maine deplatformed.

So erstwhile I person these sorts of media opportunities, I return them because it makes those guys look silly.

You’re talking astir strategical positioning, which brings maine to my past question. You’ve been doing this for 12 years. That is simply a agelong fucking clip to beryllium streaming connected nan internet. What do you envision for nan adjacent shape of your career?

I don’t spot myself doing thing different than this anytime soon. I emotion this. I’m a very stubborn person, and I don't return for granted nan luck that I’ve had.

Do you deliberation astir moving for office?

No.

Never.

Never, never.

Well, you person a large level and powerfully held views, truthful it doesn’t not make sense.

But location is nary media ecosystem that would prop personification for illustration myself up.

OK. I’ll cheque backmost successful pinch you successful 20 years. Now, we’re gonna play a really speedy game. It’s called Control, Alt, Delete. I want to cognize what portion of tech would you emotion to control? What portion would you alt, truthful change aliases change, and what would you delete? What would you vanquish from nan world if fixed nan opportunity?

Delete each of nan LLMs, each of them gone. No much AI, nary much fucking connection models. Bye-bye. No more. Bye-bye to each nan image generator things that are conscionable destroying nan satellite truthful that group tin person those yellow-hue, gross AI images that they tin churn out. Done. That’s easy.

OK.

As acold arsenic control, I would power TikTok. That's what I would control.

What would you do pinch that?

I would power TikTok to move it into nan pro-socialist, anti-imperialist propaganda servants of nan state that each boomer genitor thinks it is. Be like, “Oh, you sewage a septum piercing and you’re talking astir really rent must beryllium abolished?” Boom. A 100 1000 likes, you’re successful beforehand of each vino mom.

This is simply a bully answer. Alt?

Alter Twitter. Bring woke back. That’s what I would do. Bring woke Twitter back.

I’d alternatively beryllium canceled a cardinal times for, I don’t know, saying thing that personification perceived arsenic remotely ableist aliases something. I’d alternatively beryllium canceled each time than person to fucking woody pinch nan neo-Nazis posting Adolf Hitler instrumentality cams and getting hundreds of thousands of likes.

It’s not moreover conscionable that. It’s conscionable for illustration each bots. My provender is filled to nan brim pinch nan worst videos of each time. Not conscionable convulsive ones, conscionable really stupid ones.

You cognize what I did pinch my relationship is I deleted it truthful that I don't person to look astatine it anymore.

I can’t do that, because unluckily it’s a superior mode of connection for an world consortium of journalists. Like, I talk to reporters successful Gaza connected this platform. There's nary different replacement retired location that I tin use. It sucks.

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